Question:

Hello, I was reading you September 24th 2009 article on Australian Decimal Mint Rolls. I was wondering if you could give me advice on how to obtain mint rolls through security companies or banks [if it's still possible today]. Specifically advice on how to approach them, what problems i might encounter and costs on top of the coin face value.

Answer:

There's no easy way. Banks will usually give you bags or rolls if you ask but they are most often not new shiny coins but recycled through their system. If they have new coins it's usually pot luck, right place right time, it's something you can't really judge unless you befriend your local bank and know their coin ins and outs. It helps to have an account with that bank or you may be charged fees. It also depends on the location of the branch whether they get coin delivered from a security company or deposits from retailers support their coin demand.

The only way to get coins from security companies is to know who they deliver to and smile and ask nicely as you go through the supermarket checkout as you ask for more of the shiny coins they're giving out. Again, it's pot luck whether those rolls or bags are recycled coin or new coin from the Mint. The Royal Australian Mint send their new coins to the security companies, so that's where those new coins first go. You could become a client of the security company just like Woolworths and Coles (etc) but I imagine there are significant fees associated with that.

Question:

I collect alot of PNC Covers. And reading your articles I have become very worried about my collection. I have purchased many PNC & Medallion Cover Protectors from Australia Post. So do you know if these covers are safe or are they PVC. Currently when you buy these they are already inside theses clear Cover Proctectors. Your help will be very grateful.

Answer:

Hi, The clear plastic covers that PNC's are sold in by Australia Post are made from PVC. It's best that you remove them from these covers and store them separately. If you want to store your PNC's in an album I'd recommend the Vario 2c pages from Lighthouse. Otherwise most types of zip lock food storage bags are great, these are made from safe polyethylene and are available in all different sizes. A small cardboard shoebox with some silica gel to absorb moisture will also do the trick. Kind Regards,

Please note that in the interest of anonymity we always remove names so that we can share our questions and answers with everyone.

Question:

Could you please explain to me why the 2000 $1 MOR coin ( not the mule) is so expensive when compared to other $1 coins around the same time. In Greg McDonalds 17th issue, it shows this coin around the $50 mark for an unc coin? Is this correct,Regards.

Answer:

Hi, Greg McDonald hasn't updated his pricing (regarding this coin) for a few years. It's the same as listed in the previous edition. Greg's pricing isn't always concurrent with the market and if you have an interest in a particular coin and follow what they are going for you'll notice there are often differences to the catalogue value. Renniks 22nd tells me this coin has a cv of just $25 in unc. Of course sellers are going to quote the highest cv or use the highest cv to get the best sale price.

Greg McDonald often uses other people eg.dealers to keep his pricing up to date as you can imagine it would be a mammoth task to keep up to date. Let's just consider one idea for a moment. If Greg had asked Dealer X to give him the numbers a few years ago and Dealer X happened to be sitting on a large hoard of these coins then wouldn't they try to artificially inflate the price?

Of course the 2000 dollar was a low mintage year and it wasn't expected to be. There were also a lot of tourists in the country for the Olympics which may mean a lot of dollars left the country in pockets. Note the Mint and Proof Sets for this year have a high cv due to the tourism influx. This is the only other way to get a 2000 MOR $1, the rest being in poor circulated condition by now, maybe this has determined the high cv.

Note the cv for the roll is $700 which seems crazy. But to find an unc mule in a roll would be worth maybe $8,000+. I haven't seen any rolls sell lately but if they do get that much money because of the potential mule find then maybe the high cv for the single coin is relative to that?

It's all just speculation.

Kind Regards,

The australian-threepence.com blog team

Please note that in the interest of anonymity we always remove names so that we can share our questions and answers with everyone.

Question:

Hi. I am interested in your opinion on the future of counterstamps in Australian numismatics. I read your post from November 2008 on the difference between mintmarks, privymarks, and counterstamps and understand the difference between these marks. Do you anticipate that the RAM will continue releasing limited numbers of counterstamp coins for collectors at special events each year? Despite their limited numbers the 2008 coat of arms counterstamp coins do not demand particularly high prices (you can buy them on ebay for less than $10). What is your opinion on the future of counterstamps and what factors will influence their value over time? Thanks very much.

Answer:

Hi, It's like asking what will be the next issue that's a big winner like the VC dollar or The Ashes pnc, it's almost an impossible question. Things have changed recently at the RAM. Under the guidance of CEO Janine Murphy the mintmarks, privy marks and counterstamps were introduced so that it was easier to identify what was minted where. It was getting too confusing to differentiate mobile press and production press coins so these new names were introduced. Janine also chose the design for the C master mintmark which is the first time a mintmark (or stamp of any kind) has been put on a mob of roos dollar. Janine fell ill and the RAM has been under the guidance of acting CEO Graham Smith for over a year now. Strange how this year they didn't release many mintmarks, privy's or counterstamps and did not attend one show with the mobile press while under his guidance. This is very disappointing in my opinion. I'd suggest that introducing the mintmarks, counterstamps and privymarks was Janine's idea and will not be carried through with the zest that she would have wanted. Janine passed away last month so the direction the RAM will take is yet to be seen. They will need to appoint a permanent CEO which no doubt will have his/her own ideas on the direction of releases. I think some of the lower mintage counterstamps have yet to realise their true value. But this may not be seen for a nuber of years yet. With any big money making coin it is usually seen in the first 6 months of issue if it's a winner. You've also got to be very lucky to pick the coin that is going to be profittable. I picked the master mintmark c counterstamp as a rare coin but only because the RAM limited availability to those who could attend the RAM over 3 days and strike the coin themselves. They then changed the rules by making limited numbers available to dealers. A coin such as the Perth Mint Redback spider coin legal tender of Tuvalu has had a massive increase in price since it's issue, tell me why people want a redback spider coin that isn't even legal tender of Australia? There are so many released and they are all artificially 'rare', the collector market can't and won't support all of these 'rarities' at high prices. It's hit and miss I'm afraid. I hope I have answered at least some of your questions here. Kind Regards, The australian-threepence.com team

Reader response:

Hi. Thanks very much for your thorough and thoughtful response. I feel it was an important step by the RAM to define mintmarks, privy marks, and counterstamps and to give them a distinct role in coin production as I agree with you that it was getting confusing to differentiate between coins. I also feel that if the use of counterstamps continues in association with one or two products annually and in the same limited numbers that have been released to date, the counterstamp has the potential to become a highly sought after feature. But as you mentioned it is very difficult to predict which issue will be a big winner and this is just my feeling at this point. My understanding is that for the 2009 $1 Master Mintmark Counterstamp it was available for 3 days at the RAM and coin dealers were given an allocation of no more than 50 coins each, giving a total mintage of around 6000 coins. I would be interested in knowing if you have different information on mintage numbers. This is significantly less than the mintages of other sought after $1 coins... 1. 1990 kangaroo mint set only - mintage 106,218 - current catalogue value $45 2. 1992 barcelona olympics - total mintage over 150,000 including mint sets - CV around $75 3. 2000 VC - mintage almost 100,000 - CV $300 4. 2000 last anzacs PNC - mintage 47,830 - CV $130 5. 2003 vietnam - mintage 57,000 - CV $50 5. 2007 Ashes PNC - mintage 8,000 - CV $160 Based on mintage alone you would expect the 2009 Master Mintmark Counterstamp to increase in value to at least match any of the above. I wondered if the reason the RAM did not attend coin shows this year was because they were told to cut expenses after the federal budget suddenly went from massive surplus to massive deficit. Maybe they will only offer one counterstamp product released at the RAM in Canberra for the next few years. I hope they do continue with counterstamps as I like the way the mint your own coins engage collectors in the minting process. I am very interested in seeing what direction the mint will take in relation to counterstamps and the value these coins have over the next few years. Thanks for the discussion and I look forward to hearing any other thoughts you may have on this topic. Kind regards

Answer:

Hi, We can only wait and see the RAM annual report to confirm mintages but what you suggest about the Master mintmark counterstamp seems about right. I don't expect the master mintmark C counterstamp to do any significant price movement now as the initial demand is well and truly over, the price should be settling a bit now. You haven't even talked about the overprinted folders such as the brisbane coin fair or the berlin show overprints which are no special coin, just packaging. Have you heard of the term "packyboxitis"? Are you a member of the *ACBO Forum -Australian Coins and Banknotes Online? They would definitely appreciate some discussion of this. Lots of knowledgeable folk there. It will be interesting to see over the coming year what changes are implemented at the RAM. Cheers, The australian-threepence.com blog team

*edit 9/9/12 The ACBO forum is now inactive, please visit The Australian Coin Forum

Question:

Hi, Why do you find the self adhesive 2x2 coin holders harmful to the coin. I know people are unsure of what the glue is made from but ive used them on a majority of my coins and the seal on them is great and they sit in my albums and none have popped open. I even pulled one out of the folder and tried to pry open the holder to see if the adhesive had become unbonded in anyway and it was still tightly stuck together. I don't like staples purely because they can scratch ( i know you can use pliers to flatten them) and the staples overtime will rust. Just interested to get your opinion because if i find that my collection is in danger due to the self adhesive on the holders then i will have to consider re holdering them (which should be alot of fun work hehe) Kind Regards

Answer:

I have seen many many adhesive 2x2's lose their "togetherness" and expose the coin to the elements. Some coins I have received in the post have had the coin in the open adhesive 2x2, the coin stuck to the adhesive. I have heard stories of coins dropping to the floor and being damaged from 2x2's opening up. I have seen stock at coin shops and shows in opened adhesive holders. It's not known what the adhesive does to the coins. It will certainly leave a residue on the coin if it's in contact with it, this will create toning. I prefer to leave all that questionable adhesive behind and use staple 2 x2 's. You can get flat clinching staplers that leave the staple flat and I just take a bit of care when holdering up the coin. I don't think there can be to much issue with the actual staples as they are metal..and...so is the coin! I reholdered my entire mintmark dollar collection last year, it was a big job, getting rid of the pvc pages as well as the adhesive 2x2's - some of the coins were ruined due to pvc damage. I'm surprised you haven't had ANY 2x2's come open, maybe it's the humidity or something where you live. Regards, The australian-threepence.com team

Please note that in the interest of anonymity we always remove names so that we can share our questions and answers with everyone.

Question:

I have just looked at the Australian Silver Coin Value Calculator. I have 414 florins '46 - 63. What would I do next to realize this value? Maybe some of them are of more value than the silver content. Could you advise me?

Thankyou

Answer:

Hi, Thank you for your question. Realistically if you take your coins to a coin or bullion dealer they may only offer you 30-50% of the silver value -their buy price is their call. To get a better price than that you may want to try eBay where past sales show you might achieve a bit less than bullion (remembering buyers factor in postage which is a killer, then there's the fees you'll have to pay eBay). I'm assuming because you have this bulk lot that they are mostly worn and wouldn't fetch any more than bullion unless any were in uncirculated condition. There are no particular key date years to look out for in your lot.

Regards,

The australian-threepence.com team

Please note that in the interest of anonymity we always remove names so that we can share our questions and answers with everyone.

You can find the value of your pre-decimal silver coins on the Australian Silver Coin Value Calculator

Hi, just wondered if you could clarify some things re Governor King's Proclamation of 1800.

Firstly I'd suggest looking for a copy of "Foundations of the Australian Monetary System 1788-1851" (Sydney University Press) by S.J. Butlin as this seems to be one of the best sources for information on colonial currency. Sorry I am no expert on the field and will do my best to answer the questions you've asked, but please take them with caution, they are based only on my knowledge and research.

1. Did this relate solely to NSW

Given that Tasmania was not settled by Europeans until 1803, the General Order (the proclamation of Governor King) of 1800 didn't explicitly cover Tasmania. Tasmania was under the control of the colony of NSW until 1825 so you could argue that the order did cover Tasmania. This is backed up by a proclamation made by Bligh in 1807 that prohibited the use of 'currency' (promissory notes). Part of this proclamation said 'the value of coins established is still in full force' which of course covered the valuation imposed by Governor King. Bligh extended this proclamation to Tasmania in 1809 so King's proclamation was indeed in effect there.

2. when was this Proclamation repealed - was it 15th August 1829 and again was it only for NSW.

I don't know when (or even if it was) specifically repealed. However 15 August 1829 was the day that it was ordered in the Colony of NSW that no foreign coin should be accepted for official payments. 10 days or so earlier it was announced in the Sydney Gazette that fines to the Government could only be paid in sterling currency. The reason for the announcement was that 55,000 pounds of currency arrived in the colony and another 20,000 was due the next month so the need for foreign curreny was over. It was also announced at the same time that the call up of holey dollars would cease at the end of September.

Apparently this was only for NSW (I am not sure what happened in Tasmania). The reason being is that the Tasmanian colony separated from NSW at almost the same time that the Spanish dollar standard was being abandoned in NSW and the two colonies adopted the sterling standard by different means.

3. should we therefore have sub sets of proclamation coins by each colony eg I believe Tasmania had its own proclamation

Well that's the beauty of coin collecting, if you can find a separate proclamation for Tasmania (and I am not aware of one) then by all means you can have subsets of proclamation coins. Personally I don't stick to the strict letter of Kings proclamation. The 1799 half penny and farthing circulated much more heavily than the silver and gold coins of King's proclamation so I personally think they need to be in any proclamation collection. The fines for removing coins and inflated values failed to keep silver and gold in the colony, copper stayed though, it just wasn't worth while taking it out and exporting it to England!

4. should coins with a date before 1829 such as a spanish dollar be considered as possibly a "Proclamation coin" even though none of these coins have any provenance as ever having been used within Australia

Spanish dollars were in the proclamation though. If you're talking about other coins (like the Brazilian 960 Reis, or overstruck 2 rupees or similar) then probably not. It would be fair to say that any sort of widely used trade coinage of the time would have been seen here though, such as 8R fractions, ?? rupees, or 3 guilders or ducatoons. These traded through Asia and it's reasonable to assume they got here too. So if they interest you then I dont see why they couldn't form part of an Australian colonial coin collection.

5. Is there or should there be a definitive list of Proclamation coins which specifies the coin, obverse and reverse designs, mint marks, assayers mark and date range.

Not that I am aware of. Just King's original document. Any 'definitive' list made up by academics is open to challenge and opinion. If you know of a list and you are happy with the evidence and support behind it then by all means use that. Personally I don't collect coins that way, I collect them because they interest me and for the history behind them rather than the academic interest they hold. Andrew Crellin, owner of Sterling and Currency Coins and author of a well known (and very pretty) book on Australian proclamation coins has an interesting article on What is a Proclamation Coin. It's well worth the read and urges collectors to think outside of the 10 coins covered by Governor King.

Any help in these areas would be greatly appreciated by myself and I think by many others as many claims are made about a coin being a proclamation coin without any substantive or definitive evidence.

You're more than welcome, it's been interesting doing some reading to find some answers to your questions!

Question:

Thanks very much! You helped a lot. And very quickly too. The mint website shows that in 1992, they only minted 8000 $1 coins. If this is correct, wouldn't this make it very valuable? Eispecially as it was circulated. And what is the chance of finding one from monetary transactions? Thanks again for the help and info!

Answer:

Hi, You should pick up a copy of Australian Coins and Banknotes by Greg McDonald currently in it's 16th edition. It's a pocket guide you can carry around and has tonnes of useful information about mintages and issues. It is just a guide and prices in there do differ from what actually goes on in the real world.

The dollar you speak of is the barcelona dollar (although that mintage is incorrect). We call that one a NCLT, non-circulating legal tender. It is the same size, shape, weight and composition of a regular dollar but it is a coin not intended to enter circulation.

However........you do sometimes see them in your change. It is quite rare though. A popular past time for some collectors is to go to the Casino or Clubs but not to gamble. Putting notes into the machines and then collecting the dollars out of the hopper, then checking them and feeding them back into the hopper to go again. Also going to the bank and withdrawing coins to browse through at home to check for all sorts of varieties or oddities. Back to the Casino, lots of people will pull NCLT coins from their packaging and spend them for a dollar (maybe stolen or they have a gambling problem) or spend coins from a money box that has been sitting for years. Just recently I picked up a Florey C mintmark dollar out of a poker machine (a NCLT coin). Although circulated it will fetch more than face value. So if you picked up a circulated barcelona dollar in your change if you put it up on ebay you might get $10 maybe more for it. The fact that it has been in circulation will lower the grade and the price that it's worth.

With regards to your collecting, I have found over the years that as I have learned more, my ideas have changed and my collecting habits have changed. Expect an evolution of your collection over time.

Regards,

The Australian-threepence.com blog team

Please note that in the interest of anonymity we always remove names so that we can share our questions and answers with everyone.

Question:

Hello, I have recently started coin collecting (very amateur, decimal coins only so far) and I had a question regarding un-circulated coins on the Australian Mint website. I have noticed a large amount of $1 uncirculated coins for sale in their shop. As much as I would like to have them all, it seems a bit excessive. Some are aimed at younger collectors (like the land series for example), would it it be worth collecting every single one? Obviously it depends on the collector but i get the impression the mint are making so many just to get sales up.. Or is it just me? Your input is most appreciated.

Answer:

Hi, There's no doubting that the RAM uses collector coins as a revenue raising exercise, and yes some of the coins are cartoonish in nature. Some years when you throw in the portable press coins, counter stamps, mint marks, privy marks, 2 coin mint sets, 6 coin mints sets, and whatever other dollar coins they manage to pump out you're really talking about a lot of coins! That being said to have a technically complete collection then you'll need every last one.

But, and this is the beauty of coin collecting, there's no need for you to have a 'complete' set. You can pick and choose what you decide to purchase and what interests you. If the pad printed dollars (like the land series) don't interest you,don't buy them. If you don't want to purchase a mint set just to break it up to get a dollar then don't, look for one on eBay or go without. One of the Australian Threepence blog authors has a very complete 25 millimetre aluminium bronze uncirculated dollar collection (circulation type), but doesn't collect proof dollars for example, nor do they collect the off metal dollars like the gold and silver coins, nor the different sized dollars from the Royal Australian Mint and Perth Mint. But I am sure they'd love to collect the gold ones!

I don't like commenting on the investment potential of collecting coins, but generally dollar coins are very hit and miss. There are some that have outrageously high values out of proportion of their mintages (like the 2000 Victoria Cross dollar), and some that seem grossly undervalued (like the portable press coins). Picking which is a winner and which isn't is purely guess work. So is it worth collecting every dollar? Well, financially, probably not, but from a collectors satisfaction point of view it could well be!

I know this hasn't answered your questions directly, but to be honest there's no simple answer. It's your collection, you decide what you like collecting, what constitutes a complete collection, and above all make sure you're enjoying yourself!

Cheers,

The Australian-Threepence. com blog Team

Please note that in the interest of anonymity we always remove names so that we can share our questions and answers with everyone.

If you're like most of us you probably have a jar or moneybox or dish lying around where you drop your excess change in. You might do this as a form of saving or just for convenience when your pockets or wallet get heavy. Then the jar starts to over flow or the money box gets full and you have a dilemma. Do I spend it or bank it?

Spending:
Retail shops do have a limit on the numbers of coins you can hand over to pay for a sale. They may refuse the cash if you try to hand over too many coins or small notes for a purchase. The limits are outlined below as per the Australian Currency Act.

Denomination	Quantity
1c & 2c	Now removed from circulation: Maximum of 20 cents
5c, 10c, 20c & 50c	Maximum of $5
$1, $2, $5 & $10	Not exceeding ten times the face value, inclusive ie a maximum of $100 for $10 notes (10 x $10)
Any other denomination	To any value